Speaking of people getting underrated, Mike Brown is at the very least a great defensive coach and the Cavs have generated a lot of their Wins through defense the last couple of seasons. As you admit, you can’t complain about the team’s regular season contributions. Defense is not a one-man job, and those Lakers teams were generally porous. Even with defensive powerhouse KG the Wolves D in those years ranked 15th, 10th and 21st (by Defensive Rating).

Regarding Kobe’s 05-07 Lakers: Injured above average centers don’t help win games, nor does being sought after or being young or showing signs. You seem to be flipping between name recognition, potential and personal whims to overvalue the contribution of Kobe’s teammate. Production and performance win games and establishes contenders, which as you rightly point out is where a few of LeBron’s key teammates have come up small in the playoffs the last two years. Still, they were only a handful of Mo Williams bricks and an unfortunate matchup problem from being in the Finals in 2009 and a few of those 2010 LeBron v Boston performances were just as puzzling as those of his teammates.

I think having watched a lot of Odom, Lakers fans have a pretty good read on him. He’s got the talent to be a No. 2 (hell a No 1 at times) and was great in 05-06 season but he disappears for games at a time and doesn’t have the consistency, desire or focus to be relied on game to game as a No. 2. He also missed 18 games in 05 and 26 games in 07, which doesn’t help.

Also just wanted to make clear that Radmanovic was flat-out bum in 2007, sought after or not.

I phrased it badly. There’s no doubt that the Cavs had a better regular season team. But come playoff time, depth becomes far less important (which was the Cavs’ strength) and it’s more crucial to have a good no.2/no.3 guy. Lamar Odom, despite being continually underrated by the Lakers faithful, is a fanstastic ballplayer.

To me, Kobe’s team had the no.2 guy in place, but not the depth required. LeBron’s had the depth, but not the no.2 guy. KG’s had neither, which is why his is clearly the worst team of the 3.

Btw, I think you’re using a bit of hindsight yourself re: a few of the Lakers. Mihm was an above average centre when healthy, he was just crueled by injury. Radmanovic was highly sought after at the time. Bynum though young, showed signs. Again, not nearly as bad as KG’s teams.

Re: the East vs. West factor – it’s bogus. I checked ‘06 and ‘07, for example, and the Laker’s winning % against the East over the 2 seasons was 53%…exactly the same as it was against the West.

In any case, I do think it’ll be interesting to see how the Cavs do next season. If they come out and win 40 or more, I’m obviously underrating them.

I’m not saying Kobe’s effort trumps Lebron’s. Just that Kobe’s team was fair dinkum horrible.

Lebron had a team that was good enough to win the title for the last 2 years. Most “experts” agreed. His team looked great. Even Lebron said in the first round this year that “we have the look of a championship team”.

To discount those things and say he lead “a bunch of scrubs to 60 wins” is wonderful in hindsight. But it’s a bit of a stretch.

Firstly, Caron was only a Laker during 04-05, and Kobe missed several games that season. It was an average year for Kobe, no doubt.

But the following 2 seasons? After Lamar, his team was woeful. Smush Parker as your third-leading points scorer?? Kwame Brown as your second-leading rebounder?? Chris Mihm as a starter? Brian Cook as a starter?

Have these guys done anything before or since playing with Kobe? Honestly, they’re barely in the league anymore.

Ilgausaks, Mo Williams, Delonte West and Varejao (hate to say it) are all better ball players than that Lakers crew I just listed. Not to mention Wally Szcerbiak, Antawn Jamison and an old Shaq.

I would take Lebron’s supporting cast of 2008-2010 ANY DAY over Kobe’s between 2005-2007. Surely you agree?

And there’s the East vs West factor. Kobe leading them to 45 wins in the West equates to 50+ in the East, no doubt.

KG’s teammates were as bad as Kobe’s. No argument there.

Which Cleveland Cavalier is better than either Lamar Odom OR Caron Butler? Not to mention Phil Jackson vs. Mike Brown.

Your argument penalises LeBron for taking a bunch of scrubs to 60 wins, and rewards Kobe/KG for not doing the same (although I think KG’s team-mates really were on another level of bad).

His team had also made some positive acquisitions in the last 3 years, which could have been even better if LeBron had committed to Cleveland rather than forcing them into a “win now or lose me” situation. All indications are that he would have had at least Artest or Ariza on his team last year had he conveyed to them that he was committed to the Cavs. Could they have pushed the Cavs over the top?

And Shaq’s decision to bolt Orlando? I’m not sure if that had anything to do with winning or even basketball at all. He made the Finals in 95, had 60 wins in 96 despite missing 28 games, had a young, fully healthy (at that stage) stud next to him in Penny Hardaway and a nice core of Horace, Nick and Dennis. Too hard to make ego-stroking movies and music in Orlando, not too hard to win championships.

man sorry but i just have to differ on that one a little. i agree lebron has a fear of losing, but mj, bird, magic had a ‘hatred’ for it, two very different things.

look at the cav’s 2nd round loss verse the celts and lbj’s two insipid performances. a three possession game with 1 min on the clock and they all just stand around listlessly allowing the clock run out. fear. you think stockton, kj, charles, ewing is allowing that shit to happen?

what made mj, larry, magic great was their lack of fear of failure, they had a loathing for it. for 3 yrs mj got brutalised by the pistons. according to isiah each year mike, devastated by the loss, made of point of going across to him after the last game of each series to congratulate him, look him in the eye & shake his hand, and tell him he better go all the way because he was gunning for them next season.

the rest is history. i’d be very surprised if a fear of losing was the driving force behind many of the other greats either.

lebron our so called GOAT in the making is now looking at kobe’s 5 and wondering if he’s even going to get close to his modern day contemporaries let along the legends of the game.

Ultimately I have no problem with Lebron leaving, but I am surprised he’s sacrificed the chance to be The Man on a championships team. He is willingly taking a back seat. I cannot imagine MJ or Kobe wanting to do this in their prime. He has now set himself apart from them.